In which we think about MMORGs....

[jesshartley]

Inspired by the ever insightful (but apparently easily mistaken for Rich Dansky) lucien_soulban  , I found myself expounding on MMORGs for longer than I'd expected to in his comment section and decided to port it over here as a general post.

His entry was titled "The Gentle Addiction", and he discussed the fact that he had friends who had expressed fear about becoming "addicted" to MMORGs, or saw them as "the enemy".

My views?

I don't see MMOs as "the enemy", nor do I "fear" them, per se. I do, however, realize that for me it would be very easy to lose hours and hours to them on a daily basis. The illusion of short-term investment in the form of quests (which become long term time investments because of the number, variety and unexpected time sinks (regen, travel, etc.)), coupled with the random positive reinforcement (sometimes it's just very soothing to beat on things until candy comes out) is so tempting, not because I have something missing in my life, but because it's so darn easy. It's pretty pictures, instant gratification and deceptively time-consuming.

I got a free 10-day trial (sent by my nephew) and am currently using it to test my hypothesis. Even while I am in full awareness of the experience (sitting over my own shoulder and watching with one part of my brain in clinical analysis mode) I have, in that ten days, spent easily 30 hours fulfilling electronic quests for virtual rewards that I /know/ will go away in ten days. I've found myself starting up WoW thinking "I will just play for a half-hour" and looking up two (let's be honest - three... four?) hours later finding that the sun has set and it's time for bed. I do not anticipate this would change if I got a subscription. :)

I've almost entirely avoided playing with friends or building friendships in game (because it's always harder to cut ties when you have the social aspect built - it feels like turning your back on your friends, not just deciding not to play a game).I know that many folks profess to play "because that's where their friends are" and I have no doubt that some folks have built wonderful friendships over Duraian Tiger slaying or Peacebloom gathering. However, I already have a huge number of friends who, because of our two cross country moves in the last 3-4 years, I only interact with in a virtual format. With some, the virtual interaction is a placeholder, a way to keep in touch until we can see each other in person again. With others, it's devolved to the occasional "wave, how you doing" that you'd share with co-workers or neighbors that you pass by in the hallway or sidewalk but never really get to know. I don't think that an MMORG would change that fact. If anything, it would give us one more thing that builds the illusion of friendship without any deeper connection, something I already discovered that being a part of my global LARP can do. Maybe I'm jaded, maybe it's just years of experience talking, but I've discovered that friendships built predominantly around a single shared activity (my experiences were based on SCA and LARP, but its possible it applies to other, non-geek activities as well) rarely have the roots to survive outside of that environment. Not to say that I haven't got a lot of great friends that I met through SCA or LARP, but most often the ones that have survived my stepping away from one group or the other for a time period have involved more than /just/ SCA or LARP. I assume MMORGs would build the same sorts of friendships, further complicated by the total lack of face-to-face opportunity to get to know/do things with the folks on the other ends of the pixels beyond the game.

So, I don't fear MMOs, nor do I worry about becoming "addicted" in the sense that one becomes addicted to a drug (although I have personally lost at least one friendship purely to the draw of MMORGs, back in the day.) But I do recognize that there are other virtual entertainments that I will enjoy but which will be less likely to eat several (three, four, five?) hours of my time on a daily basis, and into which I will be less likely to get lost. Does that make them less "satisfying" or "enjoyable" to play - maybe to some extent. But I'm willing to take a B-level game experience that I lets me still maintain A-level family and work experiences, rather than an A-level game experience that's specifically (and effectively) built to encourage me to play as long and often as possible, which I know (now that I've tried it out) would cut strongly into my family and writing time.

For example, I'm really enjoying Wii right now. I started with Wii Fit about a week ago, and while it's not as addictive as WoW, I am able to take it in 30-40 minutes doses without feeling like I'm "cutting myself short".

Now if they'd just let me kill Shambling Cove-creepers with my work out...

Comments

[uncacreamy.livejournal.com]

The MUSH environment is a bit different than these, but I met some long standing friends online.. I met my husband online. Some of those friends were really just people I knew online.. but the deepest came out of expanding that horizon.

MMOs to me are cold. They're weird graphical depictions of sort of interactions. I know when you get on the phone thingies, and actually talk to people while you're doing things, that's different. But still... they don't have the real interactions that MUSHes do/did.

[technoir.livejournal.com]

I am in an interesting place on this. I work on an MMORPG for a living. It is my bread and butter. It is easy for me to get deep into game systems and talk about the narrative structures involved. I also play mmorpg's. Partly I play them for research. How can I do my job effectively if I don't have an understanding of how the industry standards work.

That said I have aspects of the game I like and aspects I don't. Of all the aspects of the games, the one I like best is running around with friends. It is what makes the game fun to me. If you are not running around with friends then why not play a single player RPG which has a tighter narrative?

The aspect I do not like is the time sink. I tend to keep myself below 5 hours a week playing. Any more than that and I would not get done half the things I want to do.

As medium though I have to say it is still a young one. We are all the time coming up with new ways to do things in that environment. MMORPG"S in 10 years will probably be different than what we see today. I find that fascinating.

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* Oh, believe me. If I found work on an MMORG (I was asked about the WoD one, but wasn't willing to move to Atlanta to apply for it), I'd totally pick it up and play it. Just like I play LARP and TT WoD both for fun and research. (And if you hear of any that are picking up remote freelancers, let me know. I'm just physically committed to being here in BFE Arizona for the next 4-5 years, minimum, so moving isn't an option.)

But since I'm not, I think I'll limit my time on them.

Actually, the Viking is buying us Guild Wars and it should be here this weekend. We're going to try that because the lack of monthly fee is one factor that may (psychologically) help keep us from feeling obligated to play it to the exclusion of all other activities. (One more thing I didn't touch on in my first post, but the "I'm paying every month for this, I should get my money's worth" is another factor that I think would encourage me to spend way too much time on WoW or CoH or any of the "Pay every month" subscription based MMORGS).

[technoir.livejournal.com]

Ah the price thing. I tend to think of it less than I need to spend so much time on it cause I am paying for it. At 15 a month it is less than the price of two movies. If it played it not at all sure I would cancel but I tend to put in at least 4 hours month pretty easily.

As to remote freelancers on an MMO, I am unaware of MMO's using freelance writers at all. It is to much of a tight, high pressure, development environment to make that practical.

Now if you have some coding skills you might look into some of the smaller casual game development market. They can be done by exceedingly small development teams.

And now that I am done rambling I am going to go curl up into a coma somewhere.

[zenten.livejournal.com]

I actually tried to get addicted almost (I didn't have a lot else going on in my life, and I had a work schedule that made planned social outings difficult) to a MMORPG, and it just didn't stick. I had fun for awhile doing team missions with my roommate (we'd leave our doors open and shout stuff back and forth), but really, it wasn't any more interesting than doing missions on a first person shooter. I also tend to get bored with things after about a month.

Really, TV, reading, roleplaying, message boards, these are all things that stuck with me. MMORPGs just don't work if you want to put them down for a few weeks, and so I can't stay hooked.

[sixswordsamurai.livejournal.com]

I recently broke my WoW Habit for my Exalted Habit (which is both better and worse for me..), but at this point people I want to play are not cooperating (or being slugs about getting back to see for play times) so I'm going through 2 withdrawals. I might go back to WoW due to a lack of fun roleplaying, it's usually one or the other though. Either Roleplaying or WoW, not both.

Habits

[fiat-knox.livejournal.com]

I never got into video games.

[generalbullet.livejournal.com]

"sometimes it's just very soothing to beat on things until candy comes out" can I quote you on that? I love it, and man, it is just so TRUE.

As for mmorpgs, my nephew BEGGED me to get a WoW account. Finally, when my bff Matt begged me as well, I went with the trial.

I loved it. It ate all my time (and kept me from being depressed about my break-up with Dante), and I even bought a month's play.

After that, it just died.

I HATE that you have to pay for play. I understand why - what with how they keep developing and it does keep a lot of people employed - but I just cannot, on a $500/month income, justify paying for play. So I dug out Diablo II, dusted it off, and away I went.

I don't like group play either. If Matt wanted to get together, that was one thing, but to play with strangers? no thank you.

I would much rather stick to single player rpgs. I can walk away from those and feel I am not missing anything.

so there ya go, my two pennies :)

[ckd]

I should see if I can find my old Diablo II discs, too.

[maethe.livejournal.com]

What's interesting about MMOs is that they offer unlimited environments and testbeds.

I'm working on an open source MMO for the State of Washington to be used in education. The goals are to create a system that can be easily updated by a teacher or parent, even to the point of adding whole environments and curricula.

I have a friend in the car industry who is taking common concepts in WoW and putting them to use in new ways. For instance, he's putting the idea of a "local chat" to be used by cars around you (opted in voluntarily by the drivers). He's proven that road rage is reduced if drivers can hear the intentions, apologies and other social lubrications from drivers around them. Also, it's helpful to find out about your brake lights, turn signals, etc.

A little WoW mini-map in the corner of your car's windshield to show surrounding cars and environment? Easily done.

Personally, I'd love the idea of having a "guild chat" with my favorite friends (provided it can be opted in and out), with communication, location tools, etc. Many of us already use our cell phones to "spread out" while keeping in contact at conventions or shopping malls; this would just be an extension of that.

Another friend going to university is working on a project to have smart sensory overlays via goggles or glasses, essentially hyperlinking what you see. Instead of mousing over gnolls to see how dangerous they are, you can mouse over a city street, looking for a latte and a place to read the paper. Where am I? 3rd & Pike. Show me a path to the nearest bookstore... What is that? A dogwood tree, scientific name blah-de-blah.

Another friend who works in the entertainment industry is toying with bringing these overlay tools to LARP. Want to have a really *oogly* Nosferatu? Just program in a *oogly* overlay. Dice rolls? Done automatically behind the scenes. You just get to see the fireball effect swallow up your pet dog Spot.

I keep trying to convince my boyfriend that we live in the Science Fiction years and that the crazy advances he keeps asking for are all around us, he just hasn't noticed. It's really quite wonderful.

Still, cheap, personal spaceplanes would be nice.

[lucien-soulban.livejournal.com]

Richard Dansky? Woohoo! I'm Richard Dansky now! I've been promoted!!!

[oakthorne.livejournal.com]

LOL Yeah, I thought to myself "Wow. Popular topic. Loosh did it, too." :D

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

Ooops, Sorry, Lucien!
Did I mention you guys are the same person in my brain? Apparently, somehow, this has happened, and two of my writer-acquaintances have merged into the same entity.

My bad!

[lucien-soulban.livejournal.com]

No sweat, Jess... I can't think of a finer person to be mistaken for than Richard Dansky.

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

I often remind myself that the advantage of my clunky Windows 2000 machine is that I can't play WoW.
(The disadvantage is that I can't run iTunes and Firefox at the same time.)

[keridwen.livejournal.com]

I admit, I use WoW to keep in touch with some of my friends, because some of my dearest friends are scattered all over the US--but we also make an effort to get together, even though 'tis expensive.

[neutronjockey.livejournal.com]

Total time sink.

I'm on an off WoW. I play primarily because my Liz^tm plays ---and kicks ass --- otherwise I'd cancel the account.

What I really, really want...is my own damn virtual world where I can invite just the people I want ...and avoid the annoying kiddie spam.

[sepdet.livejournal.com]

But you're still the best healer ever. ;)

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

Aw.
*hugs*
I miss GarouMush. :)

[dan-lian.livejournal.com]

I love my WoW, but I play infrequently--had it since the day it came out, but I've taken 3-6 month breaks. It's fun, but I take my breathers fairly regularly.

Now if they'd just let me kill Shambling Cove-creepers with my work out...

For what it's worth, I've seen pictures of people who have hooked up their systems (desktop, laptop, whatever) to their treadmills/stair steppers. Evidently, while fighting, they actually increase their calorie burns... as well as running away! :) Now, if they were able to combine WoW & the Wii... I'd probably be addicted.

[arrus.livejournal.com]

I enjoy playing WoW with friends. I've got some high level people and I'm in a guild, and...honestly, if I weren't, I wouldn't play. That's the appeal fo rme.

[jennifer-brozek.livejournal.com]

I don't play MMORGs because I -know- I would spend too much time playing them and not enough time writing.

[arvanna.livejournal.com]

As you know, I'm not WoW or other video-game involved -- but I wanted to comment on friendships in LARP and SCA. You're right: sometimes outside those environments the friendships just derail.
I've been in small groups which never explicitly acknowledged that they were LARPs but the basic reality is, they were. And when we found that our lives did not fit in the real world, we had problems. And the real world and all its demands have since separated us in a lot of ways. And not having time for SCA nor inclination to delve into SCA politics means we have lost a lot of people we thought were friends.

On the other hand I met my partner, not online, but through...gasp...SNAIL MAIL. (Friends of friends). We corresponded for about ten months and talked one time on the phone before she came to meet me. And stayed. But I could focus on one person at a time that way. And the fun part about that? You can't open an envelope and have a bunch of dried lavender fall out of the envelope in a virtual setting! Or handle their letters and savor their handwriting and illustrations and the feel of the paper and the psychic link through the touch of the correspondence.

[doctorcaligari.livejournal.com]

MMOs are marvelous, they're just not for everyone...

[habibbibrod.livejournal.com]

MMORPGs stole my friends! They ARE the enemy! All joking aside...

I know I express that opinion, and I think they humor of it (at least for me) rests in my existing on the fringes of the MMORPG world as a non-playing friend. I have no rational fear about you, or most people, falling into the trap of soul sucking grinding or instance obsessions. I've just seen some people drop off the face of the planet once WoW enters their life, and have a slightly cynical attitude towards it for that reason. Fiercely protective of my friends and their place in my life is all.

Like any hobby, there are going to be addicts, and there are going to be people who enjoy it and other things besides. Having a rich and rewarding life outside of the hobby tends to make a great deal of difference when finding out which kind of hobbyist a person becomes.

[metallian.livejournal.com]

I actually tried to get addicted to WoW, and totally failed. Part of it is that tabletop gaming has spoiled me and a MMORPG won't give me what I want. But a part of it was this:

"However, I already have a huge number of friends who, because of our two cross country moves in the last 3-4 years, I only interact with in a virtual format."

If I'm going to be sitting in front of a computer for long periods of time (and I do), then I'm going to be spending much of that time interacting with those people. Sure, some of them play WoW, but that's different for the reasons you described and also requires more scheduling than I can handle.